Rep. Liz Cheney, vice chairwoman of the choose committee to research the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, delivers remarks throughout a listening to on Oct. 13, 2022. (Also pictured are Rep. Bennie Thompson and Rep. Adam Kinzinger.)

Drew Angerer/Getty Images

disguise caption

toggle caption

Drew Angerer/Getty Images

Rep. Liz Cheney, vice chairwoman of the choose committee to research the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol, delivers remarks throughout a listening to on Oct. 13, 2022. (Also pictured are Rep. Bennie Thompson and Rep. Adam Kinzinger.)

Drew Angerer/Getty Images

Former Wyoming consultant Liz Cheney voted for Donald Trump twice, in 2016 and 2020, however she vows she will not do it once more. In truth, she says, “I’m going to do everything I can to stop Donald Trump.”

One of two Republicans who served on the House choose committee investigating Jan. 6, Cheney misplaced her Congressional seat in her state’s 2022 Republican main. But she’s not carried out with politics. Her new memoir, Oath and Honor, displays on the work of the Jan. 6 Committee and particulars what she witnessed behind the scenes within the House of Representatives, each earlier than and after the Capitol rebellion.

Cheney estimates that the variety of Republicans in Congress who consider Trump’s lie in regards to the 2020 election could be very small — “probably you can count them almost on one hand.” Instead, she says, nearly all of her former colleagues made a political calculation to associate with the previous president — although they know higher. She says some colleagues even privately thanked her for talking out in opposition to Trump.

“[Sen. Mitch McConnell] urged me directly that we just need to ignore Trump and he’ll go away,” Cheney says. “And I think now we’re seeing the real consequences of that. He’s not going away.”

In truth, Cheney theorizes that the previous president, who was impeached twice, is working behind the scenes to encourage the present effort to impeach Joe Biden: “I think there’s no question that [Trump]’s likely urging the House Republicans to move forward to impeach Biden as a way to sort of level the impeachment playing field, if you will.”

While Cheney hasn’t dominated out a third-party run for president in 2024, she says any transfer she makes shall be designed to extinguish the “existential threat” that Trump poses to democracy.

“You have to put partisanship aside,” she says. “I think we’re at a moment where Republicans and Democrats and independents have to be willing to say, look, we’re going to come together and work on behalf of the Constitution.”

Interview highlights

Little, Brown and Company

Little, Brown and Company

On Trump inciting violence

I feel one may say, perhaps earlier than January sixth, it wasn’t clear whether or not or not Trump’s phrases would result in violence. It actually is evident after January sixth. The extent to which Trump is aware of that his phrases led to violence that day, and but he nonetheless continues to say the identical issues — and he is by no means expressed any regret.

One of the issues we confirmed within the January sixth choose committee report was we produced a chart that reveals the times when Trump was advised that particular allegations he was making had been false and by whom he was advised. And then we present the day simply after that when he went out and made the declare once more. So he knew with specificity that what he was saying was not true. And he additionally is aware of that what he was saying and urging individuals to do led to the violence on January sixth. And in fact, he is glorified what occurred on that day. So there isn’t any query about his intent. And he has launched violence into America’s political course of in a approach that we now have not seen actually in lots of, a few years.

On whether or not she anticipated to be ousted from her place as Chair of the House Republican Conference after voting to question Trump

The first time that there was a giant push to oust me from management was in February of 2021. And that was additionally at a gathering I chaired. It was a couple of four-hour-long assembly of the House Republicans. And in the end, that effort to take away me was unsuccessful. … By the time we bought to May, which was once I was ousted, issues had modified so dramatically. In February of 2021, you would think about a Republican Party that was going to maneuver away from Trump and was going to look to the long run; by May that was clearly not taking place. And so in May, when the second try to oust me got here up, it was clear at that time that I must select. And if I used to be going to remain within the management of the House Republicans, that will imply mendacity in regards to the 2020 election. It would require that I be a part of within the efforts to whitewash what had occurred on January sixth, that I lie about Donald Trump’s involvement in these efforts. And I used to be unwilling to do this. And so I made a really aware determination at that time that if the worth of remaining and management was telling these lies, then I actually was not prepared to do this.

On working throughout the aisle with democrats within the House choose committee investigating Jan. 6

That expertise made me notice how typically in politics we are inclined to depersonalize our opponents. And I feel that is an important realization. And I think that they in all probability had the identical realization about working with me. It can develop into very straightforward in politics to form of go to your partisan nook and launch assaults, generally private assaults. And I feel that what all of us want to acknowledge is that that is not good for this nation, particularly within the second by which we’re residing. I write about it as feeling at moments as if I used to be a customer from one other planet once I was out of the blue sitting in Nancy Pelosi’s convention room surrounded by a number of the most well-known and senior Democrats within the House of Representatives, a few of whom I had labored with, however a few of whom I had by no means spoken with earlier than that first assembly of the committee.

The factor that basically introduced us collectively was frankly, having the ability to say, “Look, we have very different policy views, but we don’t even get to the place where we’re debating those if we don’t defend the Constitution.” And I feel there was an actual effort on all sides to say set these partisan disagreements apart. I at all times keep in mind Jamie Raskin at one level stated to me that he actually regarded ahead to the times once we had been disagreeing with one another once more, as a result of that will imply that we have righted the ship of our democracy. And I feel that is an vital level.

On what she believes a second Trump time period could be like

One of the issues that we all know now’s that we had been saved from a way more important constitutional disaster due to the individuals round Trump and due to Republicans across the nation, for instance, state legislative officers who resisted Donald Trump’s stress, who resisted his directions that they flip votes for Biden to be votes for Trump, for instance. We know he was stopped by individuals at his Justice Department on the White House counsel’s workplace by the vp, who would not do what Trump wished. And so the very first thing individuals have to acknowledge is these sorts of people is not going to be there in a second Trump time period. Trump himself has talked about appointing individuals like Mike Flynn. Flynn is the one who prompt that Donald Trump may name out the army and rerun elections in swing states. He prompt he may appoint Jeff Clark — Clark is the Justice Department official who was prepared to lie in regards to the election and try to encourage legislatures across the nation to overturn the outcomes and flip Biden votes to be Trump votes. So there is not going to be these people round him to cease him.

Secondly, we all know that he is not going to abide by the rulings of the courts if he disagrees with them. And that is very important to have the potential that you will have a president of the United States who’s charged with taking care that the legal guidelines are faithfully executed, prepared to disregard the rulings of the courts. And Justice Felix Frankfurter stated as soon as in a well-known concurrence that, if each man is allowed to find out for himself what the legislation is, then you definately’ll have chaos. And that’ll be quickly adopted by tyranny. And that is the risk that we’re with Donald Trump.

On Trump wanting to harm his opponents

[Trump] talks about retribution. He talks about weaponizing the levers of our authorities in opposition to his political opponents. I do not view that a lot by the lens of what it will imply for me personally. But I feel that what it will imply for the republic is that we can’t be a republic anymore. And it isn’t as if individuals should guess about what he would do or should predict what he would do as a result of he tells us each single day. And what we actually are obligated to do is to take these threats very severely. We haven’t had a president like that earlier than. And the presidency is essentially the most highly effective workplace in all probability on this planet. And as residents, we now have an obligation to consider carefully about who’s the particular person we will entrust with that superior energy and authority. And there’s merely no protection, no excuse for placing that energy again within the fingers of Donald Trump, who tried to grab energy and keep in workplace already as soon as illegally.

On how she believes the GOP has to vary

I feel that there are two issues that should occur: One is, within the close to time period, the defeat of Donald Trump. The second factor is both constructing a brand new celebration or bringing the Republican Party again from the the abyss of this cult of persona that has engulfed it. But that second factor of whether or not or not it is constructing a brand new conservative celebration or rebuilding the Republican Party, that’s going to take time. That’s not one thing that may occur earlier than the 2024 election. And frankly, I fear that if we focus an excessive amount of on that we’ll take our eye off the ball of the defeat of Donald Trump in ’24. So I do assume each of these issues should occur. But I feel it is a matter of sequencing and what has to occur on this cycle versus what can occur after that.

On if she nonetheless desires to play a task in authorities

I really like this nation. I’m a mom and I’m dedicated to creating certain that my youngsters stay in a rustic that’s characterised by the peaceable switch of energy. I’ve spent a few years in my profession working in nations all over the world that are not free, nations the place individuals yearn for the form of freedom that we now have on this nation. And I do not know what position I’ll play particularly at this level. I have never made that call but. But I actually really feel very honored to have been in a position to be engaged and concerned within the protection of this nation. And I’ll actually proceed to do every part I can for so long as I can to take action.

Sam Briger and Susan Nyakundi produced and edited this interview for broadcast. Bridget Bentz, Molly Seavy-Nesper and Kelsey Snell tailored it for the online.