Mr. Neil Druckmann, welcome. Nice to lastly meet you.

MR. DRUCKMANN: Gene, wanting good. We’ve been speaking about doing this dialog for some time. I’m glad we lastly get to do it.

MR. PARK: Yeah, man. This was your concept. Don’t neglect that, so–

MR. PARK: How are you doing?

MR. DRUCKMANN: Well, you known as me on an fascinating day, at an fascinating time, in that immediately I’ve–after this interview, I’m driving throughout city to do a premiere with Naughty Dog. The entire Naughty Dog will get see the primary episode for the primary time, after which afterwards, I’ve the HBO premiere, type of like a Hollywood pink carpet occasion that I don’t know what to anticipate from that, so–and then at midnight, now we have evaluations drop for the present. So sort of–you caught me at my most anxious, nervous, so we’ll see how this goes.

MR. PARK: Sounds good. Well, now we have rather a lot to cowl. So let’s simply soar proper in and get you out of right here.

Let’s speak about “Last of Us” in a broader sense. For these unfamiliar, it’s a narrative a few man named Joel from Texas who suffers unimaginable deep loss at the beginning of a world pandemic, and we observe his story 20 years later. He’s grieving. He’s a shriveled-up man, and he’s a black market smuggler. And his newest project is smuggling a 14-year-old woman throughout the United States within the hopes of hopefully ending the pandemic.

In the previous, you described the video games as being about unconditional love and about how it’s these feelings can drive individuals to do wild issues, and plenty of others take into account your final recreation, “The Last of Us Part II,” as merely a recreation about how revenge is unhealthy and it would not do something. And to be honest, you might have additionally described “The Last of Us Part II” as a recreation about being revenge.

You know, it has been two years since “The Last of Us Part II” got here out and 10 years since “The Last of Us Part I” got here out. In hindsight, how would you describe the themes of the story to date?

MR. DRUCKMANN: Yeah. When you say it like that, I simply really feel outdated.

MR. DRUCKMANN: No, it’s simply been type of a wild journey, and, you already know, you say sure issues while you market a recreation versus what it’d truly be about. But from–I bear in mind the second we first began speaking about “The Last of Us” at Naughty Dog, my earliest dialog with Bruce Straley, my directing accomplice. We have been speaking about creating an expertise of the unconditional love that folks really feel for his or her little one, and that love is so primal, organic, that it will possibly make you do actually fantastic issues. It could make you’re feeling probably the most intense happiness you’ve ever felt in your life. Like, typically individuals ask me, “Oh, what is it like to have a kid? Do you feel anything new?” And I’m like, “No. It’s the same feelings you know, but it’s a much more intense version of those.” So it’s a type of pleasure you’ve by no means identified earlier than, but it surely’s a type of worry you’ve by no means identified earlier than both and a type of ache. And a mother or father’s biggest worry is dropping their little one.

And then, you already know, as I grow old, as my household will get older and my dad and mom grow old, there’s this different worry of dropping these those that have raised you, which have related with you, and a lot of “The Last of Us Part II” was about that, type of the other facet of that, that love connection. And, you already know, while you have a look at the world we dwell in and a few of the biggest issues and a few of the most horrible issues have usually come from that feeling of affection, and to me, “The Last of Us” has at all times been an exploration of that.

And our method with the present was the identical factor. That is on the core of it. Everything is rising out of that. Everything is a dialog about that. So I feel–I feel we’ve been fairly profitable. From my standpoint, I actually benefit from the type of back-and-forth conversations that occur round our video games. Even when typically they might get fairly poisonous, I nonetheless get rather a lot out of it, of simply seeing what individuals take away from it, how they interpreted it, and I’m actually pleased with what we did at Naughty Dog and now what we’ve achieved with HBO that’s just about been impressed by the work Naughty Dog has achieved.

MR. PARK: Yeah. We’ll undoubtedly speak about all that stuff later, however you speak in regards to the world we dwell in. “The Last of Us” may be very clearly a few post-pandemic world, and this was again in 2013. And, you already know, some critics of this recreation and the story say that it was unusually darkish and really cynical, is a really dim view of the human spirit and its capability to take care of others.

But I do know for myself within the final two years within the now and nonetheless very actual pandemic world, I feel actuality has solely bolstered a few of these facets of the sport, the place there are such a lot of competing pursuits, and in a survival in setting, how would they conflict?

But I wish to hear from you. How has the final two years modified your perspective, if in any respect, of that unique imaginative and prescient? And how did this, if any–did any of this inform the way you approached a few of the new adjustments within the present? Because there are a couple of adjustments that you simply’ve talked about within the present, and, you already know, individuals will see that. I wish to know if any of that, any of the previous two years, that have has type of knowledgeable, you know–kind of made you rethink the sport, and likewise, has any of that appeared within the present as nicely?

MR. DRUCKMANN: Yeah. I don’t know if it’s a rethink. Obviously, the pandemic has been a wild expertise. I’ve misplaced a relative to covid-19. So it’s been–

MR. PARK: I’m sorry to listen to that.

MR. DRUCKMANN: –quite intense.

But I feel it’s extra simply reaffirmed what I’ve at all times felt, that we’re able to fantastic issues and actually horrible issues, and while you see individuals combating about masks or vaccines, it’s disheartening. And then while you see individuals come collectively and actually assist each other, that’s the factor we’re all striving for—-or at the least a few of us.

So, yeah, I do not know if it is actually modified a lot. Logistically for the present, we simply knew individuals could be type of wiser to how these items function. So we wished to ensure we have achieved our analysis and we’re as scientifically grounded as attainable, simply, once more, as a result of persons are extra savvy to how pandemics work and the way the federal government and society can react at giant.

But, you already know, the sport and the present are actually not a few pandemic. Like, there’s one episode that is a few pandemic. Everything else is what occurs afterwards, and likewise, the primary quarter-hour of the sport are a few pandemic. Everything else about what occurs afterwards, it is about relationships and folks. That to me is the meat of what “The Last of Us” is. The different stuff is dressing to get to that meat, to get to these relationships. That is the core of what we have been constructing.

MR. PARK: What is your view on humanity? What is your–do you might have an optimistic view or a pessimistic view or someplace in between?

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s someplace in between. You know, possibly I’ve gone, one might say, extra cynical however possibly a bit extra grounded over time. When I used to be beginning out, I was, I feel, much more naive and assume, oh, man, we’re going to make these video games that can change the world and have an effect on a bunch of individuals. And, not too long ago, I’ve had some conversations and my–I don’t know if that is fairly your query, however I’ve been occupied with artwork and, you already know, the stuff we’re making. And I’m extra now, I feel, in affecting a couple of individuals deeply and provoking individuals, and it made me assume again to rising up and what are the issues which have impressed me and wished to make me get into video video games.

It’s been actually cool not too long ago, and it’s been occurring increasingly more. We’re rising fairly a bit at Naughty Dog, and as a part of the interview course of, you already know, we simply speak to individuals on the place they arrive from and why they wished to–why they wish to be part of our workforce, and so many individuals speak about whether or not it’s “Uncharted” or “Jak & Daxter” or “The Last of Us” has made them wish to get into video games. So that’s the stuff I type of deal with now. It’s like, okay, how can we mentor the following technology of creators? How can we create openings for them to essentially specific themselves?

And I get, I feel, extra so now a sense of pleasure of seeing different individuals type of rise by means of the ranks and go away their mark on the business, and that is the type of cycle that I take into consideration rather a lot. I do not have a tendency to consider humanity as an entire that a lot. I strive to not watch the information as a lot as I used to anymore. It simply type of can carry you down. So I attempt to keep knowledgeable however then deal with household, deal with my work, and simply individuals near me.

MR. DRUCKMANN: That was a weird–that was a bizarre rambling reply. I don’t know if I fairly answered your query there.

MR. PARK: That’s okay. We have a query from the viewers. Thank you to Matt St. John from Louisiana who asks, “How has your time in the gaming industry impacted the choices you make as a writer when it comes to big ideas and stories? What do you choose to focus on first when creating a story?”

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s humorous. I’ve these conversations rather a lot with Craig today about our course of, which tends to be fairly comparable. I like some clear thematic concepts, some easy idea that every little thing might be strung on, held on, no matter time period you wish to use. Without understanding the place we’re heading, it is exhausting to make artistic selections, particularly while you have a look at one thing that is a large collaboration like a online game or a TV present.

You know, I hear–there’s all these conversations about auteurs. I’m not an auteur. Let’s put that–I’ll make that very clear. This is–what we do is extraordinarily collaborative.

MR. DRUCKMANN: So I feel that’s why these easy type of ideas are helpful, as a result of usually while you work with so many individuals, they’ll come to you with pitches, and often–again, after they’re very gifted, all these pitches are extraordinarily good and very thrilling or thrilling. So, while you have a look at 5 issues and you’ll solely select one, how do you select? And, to me, the one approach to do this is to know what your factor is about, what it’s that you simply’re making, creating, after which to say not which one in every of these is the best, however which one will get me nearer to that concept? And then in having these conversations, that imaginative and prescient, it’s very sturdy, but it surely doesn’t come from a single individual.

Now if I’ve had a dialog with individuals, like, I’ve to say possibly 4 noes and one sure. Even these noes are vital as a result of now it’s like these individuals can stroll away and be like, “Oh, I have a better understanding of the thing we’re building.” The subsequent pitch is extra prone to get in there. And I feel that’s a muscle that you simply simply get educated over time of like arising with these ideas and actually empowering individuals to faucet into that imaginative and prescient and specific themselves into it, and I feel that’s–these days, that’s a few of, like, the best joys I get is being stunned by the individuals I work with and what they bring about to the desk. And I feel it helps make one thing larger than anyone–any one in every of us might have achieved on our personal.

MR. PARK: Yeah. I’m glad you stated that making video video games is a really collaborative effort. So many alternative concepts and story concepts come from completely different animators.

MR. DRUCKMANN: I’ll say unless–unless you’re Lucas Pope and also you do every little thing, that’s the one auteur I do know.

MR. DRUCKMANN: But, in any other case, it is a collaboration, and everyone’s contributing ultimately.

MR. PARK: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You undoubtedly can’t accuse your video games of not having a perspective. My subsequent query, you’re co-president of an organization, and your final recreation, “The Last of Us Part II,” was created with the information that it is going to be fairly divisive, and it could anger a few of your viewers, which it did. As a studio govt and creator, how do you stability managing and working a profit-driven media enterprise with what seems to be your personal very sturdy convictions to stay to inventive selections that problem individuals’s perceptions? Was there a worry of that doing what you probably did would dilute your viewers, or was it clarifying?

MR. DRUCKMANN: Yeah. That’s a very good query, and it is one thing that I wrestle with very often.

I’ll say it’s, like, look, as–I neglect the precise quote from William Goldman, but it surely’s like the thought is like, you already know, nobody is aware of what’s going to achieve success or what’s going to promote or not promote or what critics can be drawn to or will it discover an viewers. You simply don’t know. If we knew, if there was a method to it, everybody could be doing that. Nothing would ever bomb or fail or any of that. So it’s like there’s no, like, a choice, you may say, okay, that’s the perfect enterprise resolution, and that is the–like–and you may simply type of neglect the inventive integrity of all of it.

What I’ve discovered over the years–and that is the place I’ve to offer credit score not solely to the management at Naughty Dog that got here earlier than me however even PlayStation–is that individuals do their finest work after they’re obsessed with what it’s that they’re making. If that wasn’t the case, I’d be engaged on “Crash Bandicoot 17” proper now, however as an alternative, Naughty Dog–and this was when it was run by Jason Rubin and Andy Gavin–very well understood that they have been getting uninterested in engaged on “Crash.” And although “Crash” was extraordinarily profitable for them, they moved on and did “Jak & Daxter,” after which “Jak & Daxter” grew to become successful. And although it was extraordinarily profitable for Naughty Dog, we moved on and did “Uncharted,” which was an enormous threat for us. We have been identified for like a–more type of like childlike, whimsical type of storytelling and recreation play, and we went to this type of cinematic, narrative-driven, you already know, “Pulp Action” journey romp. We moved away from hand-keyed animation to movement seize, and there have been some animators that stop over that. But the studio simply felt like that was the route we wanted to take. That’s how we wanted to evolve, and we did work we have been extraordinarily obsessed with. And then, you already know, I feel that imaginative and prescient was realized not a lot with the primary recreation, which when it got here out didn’t set the world on fireplace however with “Uncharted 2.”

And then that was extraordinarily profitable for us, and we determined to take a threat, like let’s do our first M-rated recreation. And that threat led to “The Last of Us,” that after I was engaged on that recreation and I’ve–you know, I’ve talked about this in interviews before–I didn’t assume it was going to be that profitable. I assumed a few of it was too refined and nuanced, and it’s just–I simply didn’t assume it could work as nicely. But it did. Again, I feel an enormous a part of it’s as a result of we have been engaged on one thing that your complete studio was actually obsessed with.

So then when you consider, okay, the sequel for “The Last of Us,” you already know, I feel the secure factor to do would have been to do one other Joel and Ellie Adventure, one thing that becomes–like, you attempt to flip the primary recreation right into a method and attempt to recapture that feeling once more. But I feel that might have failed our course of.

What I attempted to duplicate with the sequel was like the–what’s the method that made it profitable? It’s like, you already know, that’s taking sure dangers. That’s placing issues on the market that isn’t going to resonate with everybody however may result in fascinating conversations, and, you already know, we made one thing that the workforce actually believed in and I’m extraordinarily pleased with. And it was extraordinarily profitable, you already know. Despite what different those that didn’t like it could need it to be, it was profitable. And to me, it reached a stage of success that what I at all times attempt for which isn’t most earnings. It’s sufficient to have the ability to do it once more.

As an artist, you already know, you just–you wish to attain a specific amount of viewers. You need it to stay with them so that they’re occupied with it previous the purpose of ending it–it’s not only a frivolous thing–and then you definitely’re profitable sufficient as a enterprise to have the ability to develop, rent extra individuals, and do it once more. And that’s the place we’re in proper now.

MR. PARK: Yeah. Conversation we’re having proper now began since you wished to talk with me about narrative storytelling and video video games. So let’s speak about that. The critic Tim Rogers has likened “The Last of Us” as type of like the most recent and supreme evolution of the groundbreaking 1991 recreation by Éric Chahi, “Another World.” I might even take it again additional, and the evolution begins again to Jordan Mechner’s “Prince of Persia” and the “Karateka” video games.

And it is well-known that “The Last of Us” was initially pitched as a extra grounded, reasonable model of 2001’s Fumito Ueda’s groundbreaking recreation, “Eco,” for PlayStation II.

So, you already know, up to now a number of years since your internship at Naughty Dog by means of now directing “The Last of Us II”–and now you’ve dabbled in so many different mediums. You’ve made comedian books, and now you’ve co-directed and co-run an HBO television sequence. How has your video–how has your view of efficient online game storytelling developed over time? I imply, how would you outline it now?

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s humorous. My thoughts goes even additional again than “Prince of Persia.” Like, I feel Atari “Adventure,” you already know, similar to a sq. transferring round and also you’re attempting to challenge narrative onto it.

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s humorous. Well, the explanation we began to have this dialog is, you already know, you set some statements on the market about “Elden Ring” that similar to Twitter does, you already know, you’ve got gone into some heated conversations about it.

MR. DRUCKMANN: I do assume stuff–I’m extra not too long ago intrigued by stuff like “Elden Ring” and “Inside” that doesn’t rely as a lot on conventional narrative to inform its story and is–I feel there’s some–some of the perfect storytelling in “The Last of Us,” a variety of it’s within the cinematics. But a variety of it’s in recreation play and transferring round an area and understanding a historical past of an area by simply taking a look at it and inspecting it. And, to me, that’s some–that’s–right now could be a few of the finest pleasure I get out of video games that belief their viewers to determine issues out, that don’t maintain their hand. That’s the stuff I’m actually intrigued by going ahead.

And, once more, it doesn’t imply we’ll by no means have dialogue or minimize scenes. I feel these are like–those are instruments in your toolbox.

MR. DRUCKMANN: And it is about how do you employ all these completely different facets, a few of it from different medium, you already know, a few of it discovered notes and environmental storytelling. And I feel there is a option to push that stuff ahead at the least for the type of video games that we make at Naughty Dog. I’m actually intrigued, once more, by no means resting on our laurels and attempting one thing somewhat bit new, somewhat bit completely different that not everybody goes to love, however that is okay. And, once more, the stuff that we’re engaged on now, I might inform you that the groups are very excited by the completely different tasks now we have at Naughty Dog.

MR. PARK: Yeah. One of the extra fascinating things–and I feel the underrated issues about “The Last of Us” sequence and “Uncharted” as nicely and what Naughty Dog has dropped at the table–is all this unstated storytelling you do with individuals’s faces and the type of expressions that they provide. You know, even within the remake for “The Last of Us Part I,” I seen that Joel was smiling greater than he did within the 2013 recreation. And it’s like that–for me, that tells like a fair deeper story than–and a special characterization of him than the unique 2013 recreation did. So, yeah, it’s simply been fascinating to see it occur.

MR. DRUCKMANN: Yeah. I feel that’s some–that’s a few of the finest storytelling. Sometimes in passive media in TV and movie is scenes that don’t have any dialogue, and it’s nearly studying an individual’s expression.

You know, one of many adjustments that we made for the TV present is we made Sam deaf.

MR. DRUCKMANN: And it began from a spot of similar to, you already know, a dialog I had with Craig. We’re like what if we might use much less dialogue, however then it led to–that type of constraint led to essentially fascinating storytelling selections that I might say in some methods make that sequence extra impactful than it’s within the recreation, at the least for me. And I’m very curious to see how different individuals react to it.

And then, likewise, I feel with video games, our philosophy at Naughty Dog normally is like if it’s an motion sequence, it shouldn’t be a minimize scene. It needs to be on the stick. If it’s one thing that, once more, you wish to deal with somebody’s face, nicely, that’s actually exhausting to do in recreation play, not unimaginable, however usually you must take away their type of game-play loops and mechanics which might be connecting them to the character. And that’s after we ought to go to a minimize scene.

But increasingly more, as we speak about it, it’s like that’s the final resort of eradicating interactivity and, like, okay, how can we keep on the stick extra and nonetheless inform these actually compelling character-driven tales.

MR. PARK: Was it liberating so that you can work on these identical characters however like with the ability to like work on them on the present? Because within the recreation, you must actually keep on with Joel in at the least each perspective. They are the participant, proper? But now with the present, you possibly can truly transfer the digital camera round and transfer the plot round to deal with different characters. How is that course of for you?

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s not liberating, but it surely was–it was type of thrilling from two views. One is that, you already know, I had a extremely sturdy co-writer with Craig Mazin, who’s been considering rather a lot about this recreation and what we might present in it and the way we can–again, go away Joel and Ellie’s perspective, and people are ideas I’ve had. You know, in attempting to construct the world, you usually write and outline greater than what the participant goes to expertise. So they don’t see the sides. Again, you wish to outline as a lot as–further than what the participant sees. So, once more, they don’t really feel just like the world ends the place their expertise ends.

With the show–and, you already know, now we have to be very considerate about this. We could–because you’re not–you usually are not Joel. You usually are not Ellie. You’re watching their journey, however you get to go away their perspective.

By the best way, I do know you’ve seen your complete present, so I don’t know how–I assume we’re proper earlier than the embargo. So I don’t know the way a lot you may speak about it.

MR. DRUCKMANN: But we get to see these actually type of fascinating views that talk to that theme of affection and the fantastic issues that may come of it and the horrible issues that may come of it. Again, that’s our objective with this story, and in a approach, it will possibly strengthen the journey that Joel and Ellie go to.

So, for instance, after they crash their truck and so they go towards, quote/unquote, “hunters,” we get to humanize that obs–what is an impediment for them. But, subsequently, I feel their battle turns into that a lot larger since you understand they’re combating towards individuals which might be additionally attempting to outlive. They’re additionally looking for their approach on this world. They’re not simply henchman, you already know, and that is an idea we attempt to discover way more within the second recreation than we did within the first. But I feel that is been actually enjoyable is to attempt to humanize everyone as a lot as attainable, as a result of once more, in the end, we’re all individuals. It’s simply one thing. There’s some motivation. Something is placing us at odds, after which that exploration of like, okay, how can we resolve this battle? To me, usually that is the juiciest a part of the story.

MR. PARK: Playing by means of video games, there’s so many multimedia interwoven all through the story. A Pearl Jam track is central to the themes of “The Last of Us Part II,” and naturally, there’s the Hank Williams Sr. track, talking of the crashing into the truck, you already know, “Alone and Forsaken.” And it was featured in trailer.

For me, I’m fascinated with people who find themselves capable of do type of cross-media inspiration. Like, for instance, Steve Jobs was closely impressed by Bob Dylan and the Bob Dylan pathos and the way it impressed him to create the corporate Apple. So how–who are a few of the artists that encourage you, if in any respect, and do they in any respect translate into what you do as a online game creator?

MR. DRUCKMANN: Oh, man. There’s so many. I don’t–like, let me take into consideration the place to start out. It’s fascinating you talked about music, as a result of I feel music has at all times been a big a part of my life. I usually hearken to music after I’m writing or occupied with ideas.

MR. DRUCKMANN: Anybody that follows me on social media is aware of I’m an enormous Pearl Jam fan, and it’s a band that, you already know, I’ve admired since I used to be a teen. And I’ve–I like artists which might be, in some methods, uncompromising, that they–and they evolve. They don’t simply follow the same–again, they’re not simply chasing success by attempting to duplicate earlier success. They’re evolving and altering over time. If you hearken to Pearl Jam music now, it’s very, very completely different than the early ’90s after they got here out. But I discover it equally compelling.

Another person who involves thoughts is Trent Reznor from Nine Inch Nails of–another that has developed his music over time and has ventured into different media, has now–composes music for–well, has achieved video games however now does movie and TV in addition to doing–and then there’s–I feel the type of apparent ones from gaming with Fumito Ueda, one other artist that to me feels uncompromising in his imaginative and prescient and has a by means of line for all of the stuff that he’s labored on that’s one thing I take into consideration rather a lot.

Recently, Ron Gilbert is one other one who launched a brand new “Monkey Island,” and it felt that it actually was a continuation of this–a sure style that he brough to that sequence. I used to be really–I might really feel it enjoying it. You might really feel like type of like that artist hand in that recreation. Again, it’s a collaboration, however there’s a sure imaginative and prescient there, sure, like, high quality to it that felt very a lot of his style.

Yeah, these are a few of the ones that come to thoughts.

MR. PARK: Yeah. Last query. What’s the most–what’s thrilling factor about video video games immediately and video game–creating a online game, online game storytelling? Like, what excites you in regards to the future, not simply 2023 however past?

MR. DRUCKMANN: It’s humorous. I get this query typically like, “Oh, well, where do you think games are going to be in five years?” I feel what’s thrilling about video games is that nobody can reply that query.

MR. DRUCKMANN: If you have been to go like after I was beginning out and attempt to guess the place VR could be or the place cell video games could be or free-to-play, I don’t assume anybody might have predicted these issues.

So the factor I really like about video games is how broad it might be, that there might be cinematic video games subsequent to essentially intense–like one in every of my recreation of the years this 12 months is “Vampire Survivors.” I’ve performed simply 100 hours in that recreation.

MR. DRUCKMANN: I’m afraid of flying, however I discovered like they’re–like, if I’m enjoying “Vampire Survivors,” I don’t even take into consideration the airplane anymore, and I’m just–I’m simply within the zone. I’m on this movement.

MR. PARK: Dude, I’m afraid of flying too, and I truly performed a ton of “Vampire Survivors” whereas I used to be within the hospital not too long ago too, and it was–it was like probably the most engrossing factor, you already know.

MR. DRUCKMANN: Yeah. It’s just–I don’t know what it’s, but it surely occupies like virtually my whole mind and I’m simply there.

Another recreation, additionally one in every of my high video games this 12 months, clearly “Elden Ring,” huge fan of that.

“The Case of the Golden Idol,” I don’t know in the event you’ve performed that, but it surely’s a homicide thriller, puzzle recreation is the easiest way I can describe it. It’s type of like “Obra Dinn” by Lucas Pope. Maybe, possibly a–sorry, Lucas–maybe a bit extra approachable.

MR. DRUCKMANN: But the best way it makes use of puzzle mechanics to inform you the story and to get to put money into these characters after which every stage grows in complexity and–complexity of puzzles but in addition complexity of narrative and the narrative turns into type of bigger, and there’s a bigger solid of characters, that by the point I bought to the later ranges, I used to be so invested in characters, that on paper, I shouldn’t be invested in any of this. And it simply did it so brilliantly. It’s exhausting to not get impressed by that. And, once more, I couldn’t have predicted that that’s the type of recreation that might have grabbed me to such a level and moved me emotionally to such a level, and that’s the factor that I really like about video games is that they’re continually stunning in the place they’re going and what they’re doing. And I discover that for me at the least, there’s no option to predict the place it’s going or what it’s going to be, however I’m intrigued by a variety of it and what’s coming subsequent.

MR. PARK: That’s true. You know, like for me, I used to be considering like I actually wanted a deep, wealthy, like, story, narrative recreation. And then “Vampire Survivors” got here alongside, and I used to be like, oh, this is–it seems that is precisely what I wanted.

But I’m very excited for what Naughty Dog has deliberate for this 12 months. Again, 2023 is the tenth anniversary of “The Last of Us,” and I’m–like you, I’m very excited and anxious to see how individuals will react to the present.

But we’re nearly out of time. We’re about at time proper now, however, Mr. Neil Druckmann, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us right here at The Washington Post. Congratulations on every little thing, and better of luck to you.

MR. DRUCKMANN: Gene, it has been a pleasure. Let’s do it once more quickly. Looking ahead to it.

MR. PARK: Absolutely, completely. Take care, Neil.

MR. PARK: Oh, sorry. And thanks to–sorry. And thanks all for becoming a member of us immediately. To try what interviews now we have arising, please go to WashingtonPostLive.com and discover out extra about all of the completely different talks that now we have arising on The Washington Post.

Again, my title is Gene Park for The Washington Post. Thanks a lot for becoming a member of us, and have an important day.