National Party health spokesperson Dr Shane Reti says there is undeniably a crisis in the health sector and he believes aged care will be the next sector to break.

Reti made the comments in a live interview with Stuff on Friday, which was intended to host a debate between Reti and Health Minister Andrew Little as a finale to the Life Support health investigation which has been running this week.

But Little, after initially indicating he’d be happy to attend a debate with Reti, later pulled out, telling Stuff he was out of town meeting hospital staff and “addressing the current problems in the health system must be my priority”.

“He said he’s out in the health sector looking at the problems,” Reti said. “He’s out in the health sector looking at a crisis. Call it what it is. It’s a crisis…

“It may just be a couple of words, but when you do that, you acknowledge things are pretty serious and the sector’s looking for an acknowledgement that you’re in touch… that you understand their pain. Calling it a crisis then moving on with the plan is really important,” Reti said.

New Zealand has a nursing shortfall of about 4000. Reti said about 1000 of those nursing positions were in the aged residential care sector. “Really concerned for aged residential care, I think it’s the next sector that’s going to break.”

Aged care workers say they are distressed by chronic shortages in care staff, with some patients left in their beds until after lunch as staff struggle to keep up.

This had led to nearly 1000 bed closures this year.

“We need to turn on our nursing source, figure out retention. It turns out about 25% of nurses in year one don’t proceed, we need to understand why that is. Do we need to wrap more around them to reach the outcome we want them to reach?”

Reti argued New Zealand was not an attractive environment for overseas nurses compared to the likes of Australia.

“We’re very aware of what Australia is offering in terms of relocation costs, housing costs, on top of their salary.

Reti stated he would not roll back the health reforms if National won the next election, and reiterated the party’s line that he would not touch abortion legislation. He voted against abortion law reform and has been highly critical of the health reforms.

“What the health sector have told us is if we’re privileged to be Government in 2023, they do not want us to do major structural change. When we land we’ll inventory and look around and see what we’ve got. If something has been successful in the short 15 months, how can we do more of that?”

He said he would work urgently on the health workforce, lift the morale in the sector, as well as focus on waiting lists, cancer, and getting medicines funded more rapidly through Pharmac.

He also stated he wanted to reinvestigate the possibility of a third medical school with a focus on serving rural communities.

Little was in the Wellington Stuff office two weeks ago where he spent 30 minutes responding to reader questions about the health system. After that interview, reporter Rachel Thomas asked him if he was interested in coming back for a debate on the morning of July 29.

He initially said yes, he was interested – though it would have to be the morning as he was out of town in the evening. But later turned down the offer.

“Shane Reti and the National Party have not provided any alternative plan for health and stand for more of the same of the old system,” Little said. “We stand for change because doing more of the same demonstrably does not improve things. In that respect our positions are clear.”

Stuff also invited Te Whatu Ora chief executive Margie Apa to take part in a live interview in the Auckland newsroom, but she declined.